The Tithe
(Note: the term "tithe" refers to the idea that 10% of a persons income should be given back to God, usually through a church) We have experienced our first time of reaching year end with our tithe money needing to be spent. Before we gave it to the church we were attached to. But since we have a house church with no expenses there is no organization to tithe to. We have still stashed our tithe money away and looked for needs in our community to use it towards. But last night we realized that we needed to spend what was left, which was the lion's share of it, quickly if we intended to reap any tax benefits for 2006. So we sat down and decided on 4 organizations to split the money between. This brought up several issues in my mind.
1. Ideally we don't want to give our money to someone else to spend for us unless we can't find needs around us that we could help with. But come on there are tons of needs around us. We are really going to have to keep an eye open to spot them. We are going to have to change 30 years of habits and thinking.
2. Does the tax benefit of charitable giving teach us to only give to organiztions and not help individuals, who can not provide us with a tax deductible receipt. I have been struggling with this one a lot. It makes me wonder whether or not the church we plant should become a IRS-registered tax deductible organization, however that works? Or should we encourage followers to stop caring about such tax benefits?
3. Why do I feel more comfortable giving this money to someone else to spend?
4. What, if any, level of our tithe should be used to help our "ministry" related expenses? And better yet how do you draw a nice clean line down your life between ministry and non-ministry? Is there any non-ministry?
During my training I witnessed one of our road sergeants give a homeless man we came in contact with a $20 bill. I could see it gave him joy to do it. He doesn't hand 20s out all day long. This was a special situation, but I felt it was a great example to follow.
What a great struggle for each of us to have to struggle with. When do I give? How much should I give? Should I be ready to give at all times?
I'd love some discussion and suggestions on this topic!
posted by Emerging Kurt @ Sunday, December 17, 2006
7 comments
7 Comments:
I sensed, perhaps wrongly, that you believe I have ceased to believe in tithing or giving, bcc dave. I can assure you I have not and BTW we have already donated the money to several organizations.
I think there are a couple of aspects of my situation which you are overlooking.
1. My family and my brothers are a church. Aren't we responsible to minister to those around us? Doesn't this ministry have costs at time? It is these costs that I believe my tithe is meant to be used towards. This is what the early church did. They used their resources to help those around them. They did begin pooling their resources at a point. But I think you trade our situation for their's too easily. They appear to have used their resources to help the needy and support itinerent traveling preachers who had need of support because of their travels. We use our resources minimally to help the needy and maximally to support static administative infrastructure. I think this sets pastors up to be self-protective and teaches our congregants to be self-centered and helps few needy. This seems far from God's work to me.
2. In regard to stewardship and tax implications I don't think you are likley to feel the tension I feel unless you can understand and enter the idea spoken of above.
3. As for the storehouse idea it may be correct, but it could just have easily been read into the text by self-preserving pastors who fear not making payroll. If pastors were arguing for giving from a standpoint that didn't benefit themselves and was overwhelmingly outward centered I could agree with you. I just don't see it.
After further reflection last night I realized the issue I am really trying to bring to light is how should a fledgling church, that has no intention of owning real estate or paying salaries, encourgae congregants to tithe. I think we should find people and situations around us to minister to and use the money wisely there. Giving it all to the pastor to spend would seem to narrow the scope of effect that could be had and unempower followers to reach those around them.
I want people to minister to and share with those around them. I don't want people to learn through the churches practices that they can't really do anything. Since you wouldn't use the money correctly give it to the church. Since you don't know the gospel that well bring your friends to church where we will share it with them for you. Not empowering at all.
You start off with some bold statements. Denying a monetary tithe is to deny the church that God used to mold and shape each of us. That church, broken as it may have been, lived on the generosity of its members. It was the members generous gifts that bought the buildings that housed the college group where we met. We were not attracted to the college groups at the upteen thousand other small churches that had 2 college students that they called the college group. Their gifts paid Rudy's salary. I'd like to think he'd have stayed without a salary but he wouldn't have been able to, as neither you or I would.
Generosity is character quality of our God. It defines him and thus should define us as his followers. Some have much to give some have little. God doesn't care about how much, he cares that we allow his generosity to pour out of us. Because of our situation in life it may pour out of some areas more than others. It would seem that the spirit of generosity has not overwhelmed a person who argues that their generosity in one area of their life extinguishes the need for generosity in the others.
The other bold statement you made was who gives in order to get a tax deduction. The answer: Millions of people! Why do you think charitable giving surges in the last quarter of the year? People have money that will be a tax liability to them unless they give it away. They wait until the end of the year to know how much they must get rid of and then donate it charitably.
What separates you and David's opinions has more to do with your views on what exactly the church is, in my opinion.
I believe that legalism is this: for one person to hold others to their understanding of an issue which is recognized in the universal church(all believers worldwide) as being unresolved. You go up to any believer on the face of the earth and ask them who Jesus is they will probably tell you something like "He is the son of God." Ask the same person about giving and answers are likely to range the gamut. Within a church that agrees that 10% should return to the Lord, legalism might regard issues of whether you "tithe" from your gross or net income and whether part of the tithe can be given to universal church operations or only local church operations. Jesus seemed to have little patience with these sorts of arguments. "You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel." You get lost in the physical result of giving and forget the generous spirit that should be behind the gift.
Furthermore I think the churches general reason for focusing on the physical result of giving is the faithless response of pastors who are too worried about how they are going to eat and what they are going to wear instead of practicing what they preach and relying on the one who knows how many hairs are on their head.
In the end, as a pastor, I don't think you teach people to give by preaching on giving so much as by being a church that gives generously. The congregants will become what the church models for them through its organization. A church must demonstrate kindness, forgiveness, and generosity to its members as well as its community if it expects people to become kind, forgiving, and generous.
Dave what do you think?
I guess I would see calling tithing legalistic the same as denying or rejecting tithing, if that isn't what you meant then you've lost me.
I have nevar said that the giving of money is the most important form of giving. One can give in many different ways. I agree.
The only reason I can see for making the argument you have made in response to another believer giving their thoughts on giving is that you do not share their belief. It would seem, at least from my point of view, that you aren't saying money is just one form of giving among many but rather that it doesn't matter in what way you give as long as you give in some way. It is to that thought I disagree whole heartedly(I also disagree with the idea that since a concept doesn't appear in the new testament it isn't important, binding, incumbant upon us to obey it, but that is another topic). Jesus repeatedly challenged people who were unwilling to part with their money to do so or part with him. If you want to say that the tithe doesn't apply thats fine, but you can't say giving money isn't a new testament issue. Jesus standard for giving doesn't seem to be held to a tithe. It goes much further to everything. Love me with all your heart, soul, mind, and spirit, an Old Testament quote by Jesus.
Thank you for bringing us back to where we started.
I guess I am using the term tithe in more of generic sense of giving than the technical sense of a certain amount.
I am moving toward a system where a church is not just a money machine that you have to find people to plug into it. The early church pooled their money to use for the needs of their community. The apostles seemed to modify but continue to use this practice. I am unsatisfied with the unintended consequences that salaries and buildings bring to a group of people. I want to fix that. I don't know how, but I do know that I enjoy giving my hard earned money to help others too much to quit. I think other peoples lives would benefit from this as well. I see God repeatedly telling me to ensure that money doesn't have a hold on me and I feel the constant tug of money on me. By giving at least a tenth away first before I pay a single other bill I am reminded what my values are and who my primary allegiance is to. If you don't want to do it then don't. If you want to give but not call it a tithe, fine. If you are arguing that it doesn't matter if you give monetarily to God and others I think you're dead wrong and your argument is just a philosophical excuse to cover over your love of money, in which case you are the very person, just like the rich young ruler, who should give. It is entirely possible I have misunderstood you though or we have been talking past each other. I apologize if that is the case.
In some cases I think it makes sense to give to someone else if we feel that the sum total of the gifts or perhaps the "spiritual goal" of the many we may produce a better result (God's purpose in the large) then a smaller amount which is not focused. I believe the principle to be similar to why we are asked to pray corporately in groups. “Where 3 or more are gathered in my name...” This was also the reason the early church gave to their spiritual leaders of there belongings trusting them with the distribution. There is power in the number because we are less likely to be mistaken when a group of (spirit filled) believers unite on a specific goal. That being said, it is also plausible that God would encourage us to give outside of this framework as well.
If tax benefits in the motivation behind a gift it is not a gift. God knows our motives and will judge accordingly. If this is the motivation I believe it almost less valuable then the person who gives to been seen. (“For you have your reward...”) - the praise of others. “The Lord loves a cheerful giver..”
Thanks Chad! You are right that a larger group can often accomplish more than an individual or a smaller group. My giving this year showed that I believe this. And from scripture this "seems" the norm. That just seems so practical and Jesus often seems so impractical. Telling healed people not to spread the word. Not using his powers at times when it would have seemed practical. Born in barn, not a castle. Raised by hayseeds, not caesar himself. Picking ignorant nobodies as followers. Speaking in mysterious parables. Maybe I'm making something out of nothing.
As for the tax advantage thing I think its more slippery than you give it credit. I don't remember when I started tithing...maybe 16. It wasn't until I was married and had bought my first house at 28 that I found out you could deduct all of you interest paid for the year (I think thats right) At any rate you get to deduct a healthy portion of your house payment from each years taxes if it exceeds the standard deduction $7200 (I think). Our interest was like $4000 (I think) it turned out our giving brought us over the standard deduction so I submitted it and we got like $3000 back! It didn't change my giving at first (I don't think) but $3000 sure was nice. If we decided to give to anything above and beyond we would always ensure we could get a receipt so we could submit. That all worked fine and dandy when I was sold out to the church as it exists, but now that I want to see some changes and consider our small group my church I can't get receipts anymore if I give it to us. Plus at this stage in our development I'm not sure what we would do with it.
Does that explain things a little better? Does that change the way things look? I'm not sure how I would know if I were giving to God or for the tax break, nor do I think could you cut it that cleanly. But I do feel a tension.
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